why is the polling so close still?

i certainly do not want to over tout polling so early in the election in november, but given the obama foreign trip & his clearly efficient campaign staff & machinery, tons of money, is it legitimate to wonder why some polls now show a very close race?

the conventions, unless somebody does something egregioous, will be a wash, in my humble opinion, the events have devolved from smoke filled rooms of real excitement, to drowsy affairs where pomp and circumstance get equal billing with policy, party, country, families, all that stuff.

but, wait, president bush is as popular as a radioactive used condom, the american people clearly know change is needed, democrats seem poised to grow in the senate and house, but why is mccain so close?

i am not smart enough to have the answers, but one gets the impression the obama heirarchy thinks their shit does not stink like the rest of us poor souls, and i am concerned they will just forge on in their brillance and giddiness with themselves, they have gone far, done much, but now, when it comes to pushing the ball over the goal line at the end of the game, well, i will vote for obama, i cannot stand seeing the right wing going on about its destructive path any longer, but still, and all, it really should not be close by now

i see bill clinton pouting a bit, he does have his pride, i suppose, like anyone, even when sometimes a bit too much, again, like most of us...he is not a racist...no he is not....and now would be an excellent time for one senator obama to come out and declare that of course he is not, reach out to bubba, acknowledge that the clintons have a populistic tie with many of us rubes out here in the hinterlands, and when you dis our heros, you dis us, and while i will vote for obama, why will not everyone else?

if this is not a democratic year in all its permutations, i will never see one in my life, it should be a slam dunk, but its not. those that are in the obama campaign best notice, understand what they are doing so far does not seem to be breaking much ice, we just find ourselves again, at it over race

if obama cannot reach out to bill clinton, if he cannot break the ice, i am wondering how good the ice breaking is going to go in november...when in a position of strength one can afford to be magnanimous, when bill clinton is clearly stating his own personal offense, reach out and be a bigger man sometime obama, be as forgiving to bill as you were to your reverend for a while, at a minimum, bill might have gotten carried away a bit supporting his wife, but he never did use such profane and vulgar terminology, yet you understood wright, but cannot forgive a man for not being a racist, when every damn fool knows bill clinton is not a racist

i know racists, i work with racists, i talk to them daily in life, and bill aint a racist...if obama could bridge this gap he might have a chance, otherwise, this is going to get truly ugly

it may be the perversely distorted result of the first post racial campaign turning out to be further division and recrimination long lasting, turning friend against ally, turning to foes for support, be careful when you ask for change, you just might get something unexpected, desired or humane.

rambling here? i suppose, but a lifetime of observing presidential politics, going back to attending a humphrey rally in charlotte nc in 1968...i cannot say what is right, if my idle speculations might have any merit, but we ought to be able to bridge the gap between bill and barrack, otherwise, you really think obama will be able to bridge the gap between tom coburn, jim demint and other neanderthals?

demint is my senator, so i say that with all due respect



Display:


These trolls look worried. (1.00 / 1)

i am not smart enough to have the answers, but one gets the impression the obama heirarchy thinks their shit does not stink like the rest of us poor souls,

They already worry excessively about the smell of their own stink.  Now they are worried about Obama's stink, and whether it is being over or underappreciated.



by Dumbo on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:08:10 AM EST

More about stink... (1.00 / 1)

http://zebra.sc.edu/smell/ann/myth6.html

Back to Smell Myths
Do Members of Different Cultures Have Characteristic Body Odors?
Sharon Lynn
Post-Darwinian anthropology developed the idea that different races or ethnic groups have characteristically different body odors (Corbin, 1986). However questionable some may seem, such claims are not difficult to uncover:

"Negrids have strong and disagreeable odours, irrespective of the amount of axillary washing." (Stoddart, 1990).

"When white men and black men bathe together in the ocean, the black men, who smell more strongly than the white, are more susceptible to the ferocity of sharks." (Lacepede, in Budker, 1971).

"Australids have an odor of `phosphoric character'; central African women a slight `gout de noisette'" (Ellis, in Stoddart, 1990).

"[The specific odor] of the Caribs is reminiscent of kennels." (Virey, in Stoddart, 1990).

Regardless of the possible validity of such claims, the concept that specific odors characterize different races was probably propagated as a means of setting certain races and cultures apart from others. Notice that each of these comments seems to be a derogatory assessment of the body odors emanated by members of other groups. This suggests that the idea of culturally specific odors may be a product of racially separatist ideals...

Not saying anybody here is a racist or believes this, but, ya know, wow, I guess some people are real experts at stink.


by Dumbo on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:12:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Because we are a 50/50 nation - - (none / 0)

rhetoric to the contrary, expectations to the contrary, emotions to the contrary.  No one serious bought into the landslide talk, that was primary chatter for the rubes.  On our best day, it will be 52 / 48 (although if uniformally that in larger states, it could be an electoral college landslide).


John McCain says he would stay in Iraq for 100 years? That's crazy talk!
by kosnomore on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:31:43 AM EST

And see above - (2.00 / 1)

if you try to bring rationality to the conversation, you get the name callers, sock puppets or spammers to attack.  As if discussing the reality of a likely maximum 4% margin of victory between the candidates is somehow disloyal.


John McCain says he would stay in Iraq for 100 years? That's crazy talk!
by kosnomore on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:35:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't consider this rationality: (none / 0)

i am not smart enough to have the answers, but one gets the impression the obama heirarchy thinks their shit does not stink like the rest of us poor souls.

Please note, the diary you read was redacted by somebody after I posted.


by Dumbo on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:47:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because we are a 50/50 nation - - (none / 0)

No one serious bought into the landslide talk,
I see. All the talk about not needing Hillary supporters was one big joke or....there are a lot of people whom are not "serious."


by soyousay on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 11:44:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because we are a 50/50 nation - - (2.00 / 1)

It was bluff, bravado, bluster, and BS. There's no such thing as a vote you "don't need". I don't know how many of them were just making noise, and how many were truly fooling themselves that it wasn't necessary to heal the rift in the Democratic party. Many good people on this blog and elsewhere tried to explain this to people who were either so pro-Obama they couldn't see the necessity, or -- my favorite theory -- they were actually Republicans fomenting the best way to bring Obama down.

If he loses -- and I still have hope he won't -- I'm going to have a hard time not punching people who will inevitably walking around going "It's the fault of the Clintons!"  I actually read a comment on an Op-Ed piece somewhere by a supposed Obama supporter (right!) who called the Clintons "The most evil couple in America".  Yeah, sure. Obviously a Rethug stirring the pot.

It saddens me that the "pro-Obama" trolls were allowed to run wild here (and I won't even talk about KOS and Huffpo). They should have been stomped on hard before they made the party rift completely unbridgeable.

The obvious thing to do is for Obama to put Hillary Clinton in as VP, but these "Obama supporters" will accept anything except that. But it may not be too late...if Obama could just bring himself to see the necessity. It's too bad there are people who think an Obama/Clinton ticket would be a worse outcome than a McCain victory.


by SuGeAtARC on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:30:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why is the polling so close still? (2.00 / 1)

I wonder when the Obamanauts are going to get out of denial.


by ottovbvs on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:51:22 AM EST

It seems those with little campaign experience (none / 0)

actually believed the 60% / 40 state sweep chatter you heard on line during May and June.  It's a 2% race betweeen two candidates perenially stuck under 50%, which can break either way, but the leading lights are still wasting time attacking Hillary and Bill.  


John McCain says he would stay in Iraq for 100 years? That's crazy talk!
by kosnomore on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 08:00:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why shouldn't it be close? (none / 0)

For weeks Obama has been kicking McCain's ass. Now they have a tough new team, and the race is getting close. Surely you didn't expect 12 point leads all the way to Election day? We have good electoral maps, and from what I understand a great ground game. Not everything is going to play out on the Today show.

As far as Bill, I'm not sure he would help at this point. If McCain is jumping over something so trivial as a gas gauge, the GOP is just waiting for openings. Today's Bill is not the one who won 2 elections. He's done his bit, let him enjoy his life.


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 08:15:06 AM EST

With better FL counting (none / 0)

Gore probably would have won. So your premise is flawed. He did fine, up until the recount fiasco.


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 08:41:35 AM EST

I wouldn't say that (none / 0)

If Gore had done well, the "recount" wouldn't have screwed him.  Gore put all his eggs in the Florida basket, and you know who likes to steal baskets?  BEARS.  On the Threatdown, I'd rank Bushes just under Bears, and with the same tendencies.

We have to go into this assuming that Republicans have about 1%-2% worth of CHEATING, LYING, AND THREATS that we have to get past in key states.  


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 10:09:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh i agree with the 2% GOP factor (none / 0)

But I believe it's unfair to Gore to imply he shouldn't be proud of his campaign. He's no fumbling loser, he just went up against the GOP and lost. quote-unquote lost, at that.

We're awfully hard on our losers, but they go up against a party whose coordination and dedication puts our to shame. In a lot of ways, Gore, Kerry, et al should be pissed at us, not the reverse.


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 11:49:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No argument there (none / 0)

I agree that we let Gore and Kerry down by not being active enough.  There's plenty of responsibility to go around.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:05:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: With better FL counting (none / 0)

Theoretically, Gore did win. If only a few more people had been available to help Palm Beach County voters.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 10:14:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: With better FL counting (none / 0)

I think the point is, if Gore had been a stronger candidate, the Rethugs couldn't have stolen the election. That's not saying his campaign was bad, but rather that it could have been better. Possibly one way to increase the margin past the tamper-proof level would have been to get help from Bill. It's hard to say even with hindsight what would have solidified things for Gore.


by SuGeAtARC on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:36:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ironically (none / 0)

we have so few data points in the "winning Dem" category, we don't know what a good Dem campaign is like.

What do Clinton and Carter have in common, decades apart? Was it luck? Genius (equally hard to replicate)?

We're quick to point out how wrong Dems run their campaigns, but on further inspection our advice can't be based on much experience.


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:57:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why is the polling so close still? (2.00 / 1)

The right to guide the course of world history is the noblest prize of victory. We are still toiling up the hill; we have not yet reached the crest-line of it; we cannot survey the landscape or even imagine what its condition will be when that longed-for morning comes. The task which lies before us immediately is at once more practical, more simple and more stern.... For the rest, we have to gain the victory. That is our task.


"But not me personally were those cheers for"
by QTG on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 09:28:56 AM EST

Why is the polling so close still? (none / 0)

To answer your question, the race is close because America has more racist morons per capita...by far...than any other industrialized nation.  My disgust at this fact, my shame at being associated with it and being forced to pay taxes to support the death and destruction we rain down on the planet is something with which I struggle daily.  


by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 10:37:23 AM EST

Re: Why is the polling so close still? (none / 0)

This is a patently wrong statement. That honor would probably go to Japan. If you want to see hard-core racism, journey east.


by SuGeAtARC on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why is the polling so close still? (none / 0)

But morons, SGAA, we've got them beat hands down for morons.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:32:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's the McCain factor (none / 0)

People need to stop thinking that because Bush is weak, that equates to McCain. I believe McCain is, but he has 62% favorable rating in the same gallup polls that have been close, for some reason that has been ignored here when stressing the polling. The need right now is to better define him.


by Dog Chains on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 11:29:44 AM EST

Re: why is the polling so close still? (none / 0)

The first memory about politics I have is being in the second grade and being one of three kids who voted for McGovern in a mock election (because my parents were supporting him, of course).  In the first election where I could vote I still remember my friend, Monica, yelling at the tv set, and wondering how people could be so stupid to vote for Reagan over Mondale.

To paraphrase Vito Corleone, this is the party we've chosen.  We've had ample demonstration that the public is willing to vote for Republicans.  Why?  Partly because Americans buy into their anti-tax libertarian message.  Also because during times of uncertainty many find the GOP pitch of toughness, nativism, and certitude reassuring.

I think Obama still has a decent chance of winning by 10 points or so.  Approx. 3/4 of Americans seem to think the country is on the wrong track.  The % of voters who haven't made up their minds yet seems to be around 10-15%.  There's no rule which says these undecided voters have to break evenly.

More dispiriting to me than the low roadism of Republicans, or the fickleness of independents, though, is the lack of confidence which the many Dems seem to have this year.  It's an old story, really.  If you don't believe in your product your chances of making a sale plummet.

And right now many Dems, I think, are awash in this sea of semi-detached irony.  Many who supported Clinton find Obama to be a candidate who was foisted upon them (and if Clinton had won, to be fair, it would have been the same in reverse).

But another culprit, I think, is this weakness (or perhaps fondness) Dems have for constant perspective taking.  Think about it.  That's just who we are.  Say that something is X and we'll immediately start the search for those occasions where it's really Y.  We're suckers for asterisks and exceptions to the rule.

And it's this trait, I'll suggest, which the public doesn't really like so much.  During uncertain times people appreciate certitude.  The less power they have the more likely they are to be pulled by its gravity.

Not exempting Obama from criticism.  The best evidence that he's a true-blue Democrat, actually, is his tendency to engage in the same sorts of rhetoric.  At this point his campaign should be coming up with the three or four slogans they'll use to pound McCain during the next three months (and with some real understanding that any message which is more complex will probably get lost).

It might turn out that this is the sort of strategy they're preparing, and they'll unveil it at the convention, and what we're seeing now is prologue.  If they don't do this, though, that's when I'd start to worry.

But for rank and file Dems, our job at this point is to do something similar.  Because what difference does it make, really, if Obama is ten points ahead, tied, or ten points behind?  If you're a spectator it counts for a lot.  So don't be one.  
   


by IncognitoErgoSum on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:43:19 PM EST

Open Seat Election (none / 0)

Democrats have a tough time winning any open seat presidential election. They have lost the last three and the last 12 of 14. If this were the NFC, the Republicans would have clinched home field advantage through out the playoffs.

This election is a lot like the 1960 election. The Republicans have controlled the White House for eight years, and like 1960, the economy appears to be in recession. In 1960, JFK won a close election. I suspect that we are going to see a similar result in 2008.


Dizzy Zzyzzy
by Zzyzzy on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:41:35 PM EST


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